CHENNAI: Malaysia Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim talks about the strong India-Malaysia relationship, his long-standing affinity with Tamil Nadu, his interaction with Chief Minister C Joseph Vijay and Malaysia’s position on the conflict in West Asia. Excerpts:
This is your second visit to India as Prime Minister. How do you see the evolution of India-Malaysia relations?
We’re fortunate that under Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s leadership, there has been interest in enhancing bilateral relations and regional cooperation. Personally, we’ve become great friends and communicate regularly, which has helped. Ties have improved in trade, investments, cultural exchanges and education.
How has your personal connect with Prime Minister Modi contributed to this?
Bilateral relations and economic and political cooperation are ultimately about human beings. The human factor and personal touch are important. Prime Minister Modi and I genuinely feel there is tremendous potential between our countries, and we should make full use of it in trade, investments, cultural exchanges and education.
Is it safe to say that the strains of the Mahathir Mohamad era have been overcome?
I felt I had a duty to mend fences. Whatever our personal views, they should not disrupt relations between countries, particularly when they affect the welfare of our people, jobs, education and cultural affinity. Who are we to disrupt that?
You have often spoken about Gandhi, Nehru, Aurobindo and MGR. How has this shaped you?
‘Naan Aanaiyittal’ has a very strong social message. I use it to make people appreciate that the media and films have a major role in educating the masses. India has tremendous civilisational and historical antecedents to offer. That is why I mentioned Aurobindo in terms of religious and philosophical thought. Jawaharlal Nehru was a great statesman. I promised my wife, when we got married 40 years ago, that I would take her to the Taj Mahal. I finally did it in the 40th year. So I told her, “I am not a bad politician. I still honour my promise, although it is 40 years later.”
How central are Tamil and Tamil Nadu connections to India-Malaysia relations?
Tamil Nadu is not just a province of India. It is the seed of a very important and great civilisation. It has produced great epics and Thirukkural, for example. I even used Thirukkural in my budget speech decades ago. It has a very strong social and moral message about human relations and integrity. I asked for it to be translated, and we now have English and Bahasa Malaysia translations. In a multiracial and multi-religious society, understanding others is important. Throughout my years, including during my imprisonment, where I spent more than a decade, I took a lot of time to read and understand.
Prison did not break you?
Not for the lack of trying on its part, but I was too strong. I had a great family. More importantly, spiritually, you have to be strong and disciplined, and you have to read. Then you realise there are so many great leaders and people who have sacrificed and suffered more, yet they do not complain. Why must you?
You were among the first foreign leaders to congratulate Chief Minister C Joseph Vijay and invoked his slogan ‘Oruviral Puratchi’. What prompted that gesture?
I have many friends in Tamil Nadu and Malaysia who follow Tamil Nadu politics. From Jayalalithaa and Karunanidhi to Stalin, they follow it because their friends also understand and follow it. Many of them follow Tamil Nadu politics more than Delhi politics. Vijay has seen fast-track growth. This young man entered politics and won an election. I told him the challenge was to sustain the wisdom to navigate when in power. The battle in the real world is different from what you aim to do. He was interested, so I sent my book to him.
How was your conversation with him?
It was very good. I was deeply touched because he seems to follow and sense my zeal for reform, cleaning up the mess, fighting poverty and corruption, and addressing the hypocrisy of political leadership that says one thing and cannot honour it. I told him that navigating is not easy. The system is not simply black and white. You have to navigate with wisdom, but never lose sight of the fundamental principle that you must effect change for the better and never compromise with the devil.
What is your advice to him as an experienced political leader?
Patience, tenacity and courage of conviction have to go along with leadership. Ultimately, people judge you by whether you are able to execute your policies, not whether you satisfy radicals or the opposition. You have to navigate and ensure that the march forward continues, however gradual.
What is your assessment of his governance so far?
I see this as a new voice of reason, principles, values and good governance. But it is not simple. There are forces that need to be disciplined or made to understand. Thus far, he has started well, but he should be able to sustain that. From my limited experience in government, it is not as simple as just hearing people. They talk about governance, security of the races, the impact on Muslims and Hindu pressures. You have to deal with all of it because it is a much more complex system than we initially envisage.
Is his popularity in Malaysia an opportunity to strengthen India-Malaysia ties through Tamil Nadu?
It has helped immensely because the majority of ethnic Indians in Malaysia are Tamilians. They follow TN politics closely, and many have a strong affinity and admiration for Vijay. With his commitment, and hopefully a visit to Malaysia, it would help immensely. Prime Minister Modi seems very positive about encouraging this stronger bond, not only from Delhi but also through para-diplomacy.
Some Malaysian media reports suggested that your government’s goodwill gesture of including Chennai in this visit was not adequately reciprocated by the State government. Is that so?
No, it is not true. Some of the media takes a very negative view, which is not fair. From the beginning, Chief Minister Vijay’s office said the date was difficult because he was trying to adjust his schedule. I also had difficulty because, after Kerala, I am going to the Maldives. I had a small window and the dates did not match. He tried, and we delayed the programme to accommodate him, but he was already committed to major programmes, overseas investments and other engagements. Finally, I told him, “It is okay. I will continue with Kerala and the Maldives, but I cannot proceed to TN.” He will probably join us in Malaysia.
You have also engaged with cultural icons such as AR Rahman, Kamal Haasan and Rajinikanth.
Kamal Haasan was a good friend, and so was Rahman. Rajinikanth was surprised when I told him I had watched Sivaji: The Boss. It was a famous and popular film. My wife loved it, so I said I must watch it.
How do you assess the contribution of Malaysian Indians to the country’s growth story?
The first generation came as what the British called coolies in the estates, but there were also professionals in medicine and law. They have contributed through politics, culture, education and business. Generally, ethnic Indians have been very positive. I’m personally indebted to them because they have been very supportive throughout my political career.
Critics argue that your government’s measures have fallen short of the expectations of Malaysian Indians.
All ethnic and religious communities say the same thing. No community, majority or minority, should be marginalised or neglected. We should listen and make adjustments. There have been statements that hurt the feelings of ethnic Indians, particularly Hindus. We make amends and adjustments.
Malaysia is a BRICS partner country. What do you seek from BRICS?
We applied for membership. President Vladimir Putin, who was chairing BRICS, strongly supported Malaysia, and Prime Minister Modi was the first to quickly raise his hand in support. President Xi Jinping also supported us. Our interest is to promote meaningful multilateral trade and fair trading practices. BRICS should not be a force against others, but a new alliance based on common interests and a principled commitment to internationally accepted multilateral mechanisms.
What is your assessment of the conflicts in West Asia and the disruption in the Strait of Hormuz?
In the Middle East, Israel has refused to accept various international mechanisms. I am not condoning Hamas, but the underlying problem has existed for 70 years. There have been continued killings, bombings and settlement activity. The international community must address the fundamental issue of injustice, colonisation and dispossession. I support cessation of hostilities and an immediate resolution. Malaysia is also suffering from the rising costs. We have to take a principled stand. I hope BRICS and the United Nations will be more vocal and that the US will listen.
Do you support India’s inclusion in the UN Security Council?
Yes. We should formalise the system and negotiate a new, more democratic system. India is an important country with a great history, from the days of non-alignment and the collaboration between Nehru and others. India has a role internationally, and we are very supportive. India is a great friend.
You have had a remarkable journey, from deputy Prime Minister to imprisonment and then becoming Prime Minister. How would you like history to record your legacy?
I’m not too ambitious. I’m just a village guy who wants to do the best for his people, help them and make them proud as Malaysians and as human beings.